I think men not only worry about being falsely accused but I believe when we talk about assault they center themselves be cc use they are sitting their thinking if their sexual encounters were actually rape because they don't even know because they don't listen.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in this piece, Poorna. I feel so angry I can think of nothing else at the moment. I need the men in my life to feel the same, but instead I’m being accused of almost obsessing over conspiracy? And the absolutely depraved things I’ve discovered amongst the files ‘sound too unbelievable’. Of course they do, that’s why women are so horrified, disgusted and upset. I just don’t understand why there isn’t more outrage from men.
Like many of the people who comment below I just don’t know what to do with my incensed rage and outrage. Whenever I speak up in my educated and supposedly supportive environment it feels like I’m the one who is a pain and keep on mentioning the same stuff and please can we talk about sthg else. The powerlessness is as infuriating as the sense that women are the problem when the issue is raised again and again. Mad doesn’t cover it. WHY SHOULD IT ONLY BE WOMEN THAT ARE ENRAGED? Why aren’t the fathers, brothers, husbands, uncles, cousins, nephews… jumping on the rage wagon?
I am so angry I can’t breathe. I’ve had so many private messages in response to the piece I wrote yesterday that I don’t know what to do with the rage.
I am consumed by rage. I agree. Where are the men talking about this via what’s app or at the pub?! Where are they all? I tried to bring it up with my husband and a close male friend and they both looked awkward and were clearly waiting for the moment to pass. Both good men. It makes me wonder if they are even shocked about this. Or are they scared of saying the wrong thing? But there is only one way to think about this surely. Same with Gisèle Pelicot. Are men silent because they know all of this happens but if they don’t engage with it, they think it is not their problem? My fear is that this is all so much more widespread than we imagine. And that men all know. Are they living a dual life - do they behave entirely differently when in groups with just men? I feel as though I am living in a weird simulation.
I think what you said here is key : ‘The world order is upheld by those who have the most to gain from it,..’ and sometimes/many times depending on your cultural background that world is upheld on the shoulders of the women that patriarchy recruits to do it’s dirty work for them because in doing so, they are taken care of in return.
I have found myself in my adult life surrounded by women like these and therefore I am labelled the problem child with the anger issues, because there is ‘so much else’ that i ‘should’ be busying myself with. I have been gently distanced from female only WhatsApp groups because of the way i will not shut up and will not stop asking the difficult questions about the state of the world we are in. You’d be forgiven for thinking I must be really annoying but I’m not saying anything different to what you/other women here are. I hope these women in my life are in the minority but my fear is they are not. And these are women who have been harmed by the very patriarchy they want to pretend is doing anything but. I am fed up, but i won’t shut up and i will not douse my anger. I can surround myself (and am to some degree) by different people who connect with me on my wavelength but i don’t know if this solves the problem of opening some peoples eyes wider. Just to add, I work closely with friends, family and anyone who wants my time to speak to them at an individual level and understand them better. And i do agree, women are angry, even the ones who have ended up supporting the patriarchy and those who are not as blinded by it as others do need safe ways to channel this anger.
It’s really hard - especially when it comes from women in terms of upholding the patriarchy. I’ve been blessed to know and be supported for instance by a lot of white women who aren’t problematic but increasingly I’m starting to notice how some women treat me - like I’m less than or shouldn’t have an opinion about something because they’ve made a judgement about my skin colour, and deemed it lesser than their knowledge and experience. The one saving grace is that at 45 I know myself - you know what I mean? Like I am solid and golden and my knowledge is vast and so it doesn’t ruffle me - but it does piss me off hugely
I know exactly what you mean. I know who I am and what I stand for so I’m ok with people falling away from me for whatever reason. Keeping that rage lit is important - it helps to light the way at the very least, towards a more hopeful place. Thank you for writing this piece.
Bloody well said! I am a constantly boiling cauldron of rage & all I see for it is hellish IBS. To be told we're not angry enough makes my cauldron boil all the more...I can only hope that events gather pace fast & justice is finally served on these hideous men & all their disgusting 'cronies'.
Maybe one day - in a Faraway Land - we won't have to be angry any more.
Your description of the anger like lava bubbling under our skin is so poignant. I agree with your every word and will forward it to some angry - and silenced - women in my work who I know will appreciate this as much as I do.
I really agree about the lack of presence people bring to these kinds of conversations. It seems many men have learnt to say the right thing but not be present and actually really listen. I am a white woman and this made me question how much I try to say the right thing in discussions about race. Your writing reminded me to take myself out of the discussion, decentre myself, and sit more in presence.
Yes, 1000 times. I was asked as a child in new double digits whether or not I had “lured” my attacker. I was 11. Lured? WTF. I had a physical response to the images of AMW, and the look of smug fun on his face: violent illness. So yes, angry does not touch what I’m feeling right now. Thank you for writing this Poorna.
Thank you for articulating some of the thoughts that have been swirling around in my head over the past few weeks (years/decades?).
Over the past week, I've watched the BBC Newsnight documentary with Victoria Derbyshire interviewing Gisele Pelicot, and listened to the Ezra Klein podcast episode with Anand Giridharadas (they discuss Epstein, but also talk about the women that were abused/raped/trafficked). Both have left me feeling disgusted and angry at the silence from those who knew what was going on and did not speak up. But I am equally enraged by the casual language that was used to describe what was being done to the women and Pelicot. There is one point in the Newsnight documentary when Pelicot describes how the defence contested the use of the word 'rape' because they didn't think that it described what happened. Instead, they wanted to use 'sexual scenes', which completely changes the nature of the way that crimes would be viewed! WTF!
It's such a contrast - women are not allowed to be angry, the only emotion men are allowed to show is anger. Men's anger has a place to go, it's heard, meanwhile, women's anger ends up directed inward. There's no balance.
Thank you so much for writing this piece Poorna. My mind and body is consumed with rage at all of this. Not one single male in my life has spoken about this and when I've brought it up they just quietly wait for me to stop speaking.
I found a way to use my boiling rage in a useful way: I demand X and don't tolerate Y from men.
I demand an impeccable behaviour from male friends and as soon as they fuck up (and they do way too often and way too big), they get thrown out of my life.
I don't tolerate BS excuses or attempts to get used by them.
I've lost a good amount of male friends (were they really friends? Who knows!) But I don't regret getting rid of the creeps, the liars, the unhinged.
My rage keeps my standards so those disgusting creatures don't crawl into my life and don't stay in it. And how they complain when I don't allow them to do whatever they want! They are not used to hear a firm "no" (plus some clarifying, direct comments/explanations). I've been told "you speak like a man". Whatever, just go fuck yourself already and don't bother me
I think men not only worry about being falsely accused but I believe when we talk about assault they center themselves be cc use they are sitting their thinking if their sexual encounters were actually rape because they don't even know because they don't listen.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in this piece, Poorna. I feel so angry I can think of nothing else at the moment. I need the men in my life to feel the same, but instead I’m being accused of almost obsessing over conspiracy? And the absolutely depraved things I’ve discovered amongst the files ‘sound too unbelievable’. Of course they do, that’s why women are so horrified, disgusted and upset. I just don’t understand why there isn’t more outrage from men.
I think it’s the inability to talk about it with them that feels so hard - like we’re just screaming into a void tbh
Thank you for this. I’m once again awake at an ungodly hour bc the rage is my new alarm clock.
Like many of the people who comment below I just don’t know what to do with my incensed rage and outrage. Whenever I speak up in my educated and supposedly supportive environment it feels like I’m the one who is a pain and keep on mentioning the same stuff and please can we talk about sthg else. The powerlessness is as infuriating as the sense that women are the problem when the issue is raised again and again. Mad doesn’t cover it. WHY SHOULD IT ONLY BE WOMEN THAT ARE ENRAGED? Why aren’t the fathers, brothers, husbands, uncles, cousins, nephews… jumping on the rage wagon?
I am so angry I can’t breathe. I’ve had so many private messages in response to the piece I wrote yesterday that I don’t know what to do with the rage.
I hear ya!
I am consumed by rage. I agree. Where are the men talking about this via what’s app or at the pub?! Where are they all? I tried to bring it up with my husband and a close male friend and they both looked awkward and were clearly waiting for the moment to pass. Both good men. It makes me wonder if they are even shocked about this. Or are they scared of saying the wrong thing? But there is only one way to think about this surely. Same with Gisèle Pelicot. Are men silent because they know all of this happens but if they don’t engage with it, they think it is not their problem? My fear is that this is all so much more widespread than we imagine. And that men all know. Are they living a dual life - do they behave entirely differently when in groups with just men? I feel as though I am living in a weird simulation.
I think what you said here is key : ‘The world order is upheld by those who have the most to gain from it,..’ and sometimes/many times depending on your cultural background that world is upheld on the shoulders of the women that patriarchy recruits to do it’s dirty work for them because in doing so, they are taken care of in return.
I have found myself in my adult life surrounded by women like these and therefore I am labelled the problem child with the anger issues, because there is ‘so much else’ that i ‘should’ be busying myself with. I have been gently distanced from female only WhatsApp groups because of the way i will not shut up and will not stop asking the difficult questions about the state of the world we are in. You’d be forgiven for thinking I must be really annoying but I’m not saying anything different to what you/other women here are. I hope these women in my life are in the minority but my fear is they are not. And these are women who have been harmed by the very patriarchy they want to pretend is doing anything but. I am fed up, but i won’t shut up and i will not douse my anger. I can surround myself (and am to some degree) by different people who connect with me on my wavelength but i don’t know if this solves the problem of opening some peoples eyes wider. Just to add, I work closely with friends, family and anyone who wants my time to speak to them at an individual level and understand them better. And i do agree, women are angry, even the ones who have ended up supporting the patriarchy and those who are not as blinded by it as others do need safe ways to channel this anger.
It’s really hard - especially when it comes from women in terms of upholding the patriarchy. I’ve been blessed to know and be supported for instance by a lot of white women who aren’t problematic but increasingly I’m starting to notice how some women treat me - like I’m less than or shouldn’t have an opinion about something because they’ve made a judgement about my skin colour, and deemed it lesser than their knowledge and experience. The one saving grace is that at 45 I know myself - you know what I mean? Like I am solid and golden and my knowledge is vast and so it doesn’t ruffle me - but it does piss me off hugely
I know exactly what you mean. I know who I am and what I stand for so I’m ok with people falling away from me for whatever reason. Keeping that rage lit is important - it helps to light the way at the very least, towards a more hopeful place. Thank you for writing this piece.
Bloody well said! I am a constantly boiling cauldron of rage & all I see for it is hellish IBS. To be told we're not angry enough makes my cauldron boil all the more...I can only hope that events gather pace fast & justice is finally served on these hideous men & all their disgusting 'cronies'.
Maybe one day - in a Faraway Land - we won't have to be angry any more.
Your description of the anger like lava bubbling under our skin is so poignant. I agree with your every word and will forward it to some angry - and silenced - women in my work who I know will appreciate this as much as I do.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
I really agree about the lack of presence people bring to these kinds of conversations. It seems many men have learnt to say the right thing but not be present and actually really listen. I am a white woman and this made me question how much I try to say the right thing in discussions about race. Your writing reminded me to take myself out of the discussion, decentre myself, and sit more in presence.
Well said! I'm fuming with nowhere to go with this pent-up anger - just try to channel it into fighting this shit.
Yes, 1000 times. I was asked as a child in new double digits whether or not I had “lured” my attacker. I was 11. Lured? WTF. I had a physical response to the images of AMW, and the look of smug fun on his face: violent illness. So yes, angry does not touch what I’m feeling right now. Thank you for writing this Poorna.
Thank you for articulating some of the thoughts that have been swirling around in my head over the past few weeks (years/decades?).
Over the past week, I've watched the BBC Newsnight documentary with Victoria Derbyshire interviewing Gisele Pelicot, and listened to the Ezra Klein podcast episode with Anand Giridharadas (they discuss Epstein, but also talk about the women that were abused/raped/trafficked). Both have left me feeling disgusted and angry at the silence from those who knew what was going on and did not speak up. But I am equally enraged by the casual language that was used to describe what was being done to the women and Pelicot. There is one point in the Newsnight documentary when Pelicot describes how the defence contested the use of the word 'rape' because they didn't think that it described what happened. Instead, they wanted to use 'sexual scenes', which completely changes the nature of the way that crimes would be viewed! WTF!
It's such a contrast - women are not allowed to be angry, the only emotion men are allowed to show is anger. Men's anger has a place to go, it's heard, meanwhile, women's anger ends up directed inward. There's no balance.
Thank you so much for writing this piece Poorna. My mind and body is consumed with rage at all of this. Not one single male in my life has spoken about this and when I've brought it up they just quietly wait for me to stop speaking.
I found a way to use my boiling rage in a useful way: I demand X and don't tolerate Y from men.
I demand an impeccable behaviour from male friends and as soon as they fuck up (and they do way too often and way too big), they get thrown out of my life.
I don't tolerate BS excuses or attempts to get used by them.
I've lost a good amount of male friends (were they really friends? Who knows!) But I don't regret getting rid of the creeps, the liars, the unhinged.
My rage keeps my standards so those disgusting creatures don't crawl into my life and don't stay in it. And how they complain when I don't allow them to do whatever they want! They are not used to hear a firm "no" (plus some clarifying, direct comments/explanations). I've been told "you speak like a man". Whatever, just go fuck yourself already and don't bother me